"If we focus too intently on the past, we risk walking into the future backwards"
Beautiful quote from the Governor-General's Speech at Ōnuku Marae, Akaroa. The same logic applies to a republic. Interestingly, the Queen's representative makes no mention of the Queen our the "promise" monarchy New Zealand water on about. The truth is the Queen hasn't even been to Waitangi, the birthplace of our nation, for 21 years.
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Ah well I imagine he was referring to grievances relating to the treaty. As he went on to say "I have sensed a momentum from both the Crown and iwi to address past injustices and seek fair settlements. " In other words, lets get the ball rolling and reach full and final settlements.
A big leap of logic to think this should apply to the monarchy. Sure parliamentary democracy is in our past too...are you suggesting that in our past is where it should stay? I presume not. We have both a parliamentary democracy and monarchy as part of our constitution. During the course of our history they have both evolved to the system we have now, which incidentally is very much part of our present. This is illustrated by the both Governor-General and PM taking part in Waitangi Day commemorations. No Queen you may say.....well I believe that the GG, her fulltime paid representative, was there. Remember too, this is the date Elizabeth acceded to the throne.
A point of order....in his speech the GG referred to the languages used in the Realm of NZ. A nice gesture, and undeniably PC, to include all the official language of the Pacific Island constituents of the realm. However as the Treaty of Waitangi specifically related to NZ itself (and does not relate to NZ's Pacific colonies or ex-colonies) was it perhaps inappropriate to include the languages of NZ's Pacific empire. Sure if he wanted to address the audience in other languages used in NZ he could well have used some of those Pacific languages with the addition of some other commonly used tongues such as Samoan, Tongan, Hindi, Gujarati, Cantonese, Mandarin and Arabic.....or limit it to the ones spoken by the most people.
It's not a stretch of logic to apply the GG's words to the monarchy. To state the monarchy and parliamentary democracy has evolved as part of our status quo is a truism, the real question is the relevance of the institution of the monarchy. As our system has evolved the actual interaction with the Royal family has evaporated; the symbolic relevance of the institution is so thin, they now have to send their most popular member to try to revive support for it.
Given that it also struggles in the UK to find relevance, I would say it's a stretch to claim that the monarchy is anything other than a symbol of the past, specifically our past as a British colony. Otherwise, why do monarchists always argue keeping the monarchy is about "our" heritage? They know that the monarchy symbolises heritage to its most ardent supporters.
Remember too, this is the date Elizabeth acceded to the throne.
So New Zealand's treated as second-class because our national day happens to fall on the same day as the Queen's accession? That again underlines that the monarchy is ridiculous - the Queen stays in the UK because that's her home; the argument that the monarchy is "shared" is nonsense.
"I love the way monarchists get into conniptions over the GG using languages other than English."
The sweeping generalistion....
Anyway, the use of the Pacific language greetings, when the rest of the speech is in English, is tokenism.
"It's not a stretch of logic to apply the GG's words to the monarchy." Obviously not for you.
Willy "the PR weapon" argument trotted out again.
The sweeping generalistion....
Anyway, the use of the Pacific language greetings, when the rest of the speech is in English, is tokenism.
"It's not a stretch of logic to apply the GG's words to the monarchy." Obviously not for you.
Willy "the PR weapon" argument trotted out again.
Legally New Zealand is a 'Realm' and a Constitutional Monarchy, and as it happens, the British Sovereign is also the New Zealand Sovereign. Technically, the role could be filled by anyone the New Zealand Parliament cared to ask.
Actually I would have no complaint if he had used Maori for all his speech. Samoan and Tongan are more widely spoken than Tokelauan in NZ. The Treaty relates to NZ - not to Tokelau.
But its great to see republican movement leaders use sweeping generalisations....because it gives me the opportunity to say that it looks like Republicans disrespect the flag and are NZ flag burning vandals.
So you'd prefer the welcome was just in English, with no acknowledgment of the other constituent parts of the Realm? Larges parts of it are in Maori as well...
Well, that's only because you don't accept the monarchy is little more than a relic, yet argue it's part of "our" heritage.
Ah yes.....but the Treaty does not affect all the constituent parts of his realm.
But you are right it is like arguing over the number of angels on the point of a needle. Who needs to get bogged down on details when it comes to constituional matters....
Does the Treaty apply to Niue, Cooks or Tokelau?
Large parts in Maori...not in the transcript you have a link to. Just Hello and a Goodbye, Be Strong and Fare ye well in Maori. A wee nod to Maori.
I would not have worried me if it was all in NZSL, Maori or English.
That is all very well. You mean even though he was speaking at a Waitangi Day celebration at a significant Treaty location in the South Island, the Treaty had nothing to do with the reason he was making his address!
His constitutional relationship with NZ would be different to his constitutional realtionship with for example the Cook Islands.
I didn't say that at all. I said he's the Governor-General of the Realm of New Zealand, speaking in that capacity, that's what matters.
His constitutional relationship with NZ would be different to his constitutional realtionship with for example the Cook Islands.
Oh, I see. So could the Queen of New Zealand not speak for New Zealand if she was making a speech in London then? ;-)
Well the detail is the actuality that in law she is the Queen of New Zealand. NZ has the ability to have a monarch separate from that of the UK. It is just that at the moment NZ choses (yes, we have not decided otherwise) to have the same monarch as the UK.
For your purposes, this is a detail you would like to ignore.
The reality, as thankfully spelled out by the Queen's own website, is that the Queen works as Britain's head of state, represents Britain as its head of state, signs off constitutional instruments as Britain's head of state, is Commander-in-Chief as Britain's head of state and lives in Britain as Britain's head of state.
Not in the transcript you linked to....Just Hello and Goodbye, Be Strong, Be Healthy, and Fare Ye Well were in Maori.
No problems with me if he wanted to address his whole speech in Maori, English or NZSL.
Sure there is a Realm....but he has a separate capacity as the Queen's representative for NZ as separate political entity.
Another example could be.....Why would the Queen of the UK say hello in Welsh when opening the Scottish assembly?
So what? I'm yet to see exactly why the Gov-Gen must change the opening of his speech depending on which part of the realm he's in. Moreover given the significant number of Rarotongans / CI Maori, Nuiens and Tokelauans in NZ, it's a great way to signify their part of the Realm. Honestly, I fail to see why this is such a big issue for you.
Why would the Queen of the UK say hello in Welsh when opening the Scottish assembly?
Um, because Wales is part of the UK. I'd expect the Queen to use Celtic or Gaelic as well. Given the Queen's views on the union I would've thought that's a practical thing to do.
Ah well, a NZ Queen has a different meaning from Queen of NZ. We have a unique and independent Head of State postion, The Monarch of NZ, which the NZ government has determined will be filled by the person who fulfills the requirements of the Act of Succession (UK). Currently that person is the UK resident, Elizabeth Windsor. She is Queen of NZ, NZ's Queen but maybe not a NZ Queen. If she lived in NZ then indeed she would be a NZ Queen as well.
So I would agree with the statement that NZ's Head of State is the Monarch of NZ, who is currently the British Queen Elizabeth.
I would not agree with this: NZ's Head of State is the Monarch of NZ, who is the Queen of the UK.
But I would agree to: NZ's Head of State is the Monarch of NZ, who is also the Queen of the UK.
Actually there is no official language in Scotland...so maybe a poor example. However Scots, Scots Gaelic and English are "customarily" used so would be appropriate to use in Scotland. Also Welsh has official recognition only in Wales. So why would it be appropriate for the Queen of the UK to use a Welsh greeting when opening the Scottish Assemby. Similarly, why would Cook Island Maori be used at a NZ Waitangi Day celebration when Cook Islands Maori only has official recogition in the Cook Islands.
"Moreover given the significant number of Rarotongans / CI Maori, Nuiens and Tokelauans in NZ, it's a great way to signify their part of the Realm." Sure if the event were to do with the whole Realm...but this event was to do with the home country of NZ, which has a greater population of Samoans, Tongans etc. than of Tokelauans, Rarotongans etc.
A big issue...not really....just an interesting point of order. By trying to be inclusive by using the greetings of the official languages of all the countries of the realm, he added languages which are not official NZ languages. By doing that, he actually missed out other non-official languages (such as Samoan and Tongan), which are actually spoken by greater numbers of people in NZ.
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